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	<title>Comments on: Of Proof and other things.</title>
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	<link>http://chrislintott.net/2008/10/29/of-proof-and-other-things/</link>
	<description>The Universe as seen from the perspective of an astronomical researcher, presenter and writer.</description>
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		<title>By: Richard Walker</title>
		<link>http://chrislintott.net/2008/10/29/of-proof-and-other-things/comment-page-1/#comment-97365</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrislintott.net/?p=495#comment-97365</guid>
		<description>Hi Chris,

I&#039;m with you on the disappointment front - whilst I&#039;ve not seen Proof, many television documentaries that supposedly address science (or even rare excursions that include mathematics) are often content-free when it comes to the real subject matter!

I read Paul Lockhart&#039;s  article (thank you for the length warning!) with a degree of sympathy - I recognised many of the points that he raised from my own, and my children&#039;s school experiences.  I did like the Gauss quote about it being better to have notions rather than notations.

I seem to recall Lancelot Hogben in &#039;Mathematics for the million&#039; providing some alternatives to the &#039;formal logic proofs&#039; - maybe we should ask Alan Bennett to write a mathematical version of &#039;The history boys&#039; based on some of Lockhart and Hogben&#039;s material.  It&#039;s more likely to rescue mathematics in schools then generations of politicians and &#039;educators&#039;. 

Cheers, and thank you for this thought provoking item.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chris,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m with you on the disappointment front &#8211; whilst I&#8217;ve not seen Proof, many television documentaries that supposedly address science (or even rare excursions that include mathematics) are often content-free when it comes to the real subject matter!</p>
<p>I read Paul Lockhart&#8217;s  article (thank you for the length warning!) with a degree of sympathy &#8211; I recognised many of the points that he raised from my own, and my children&#8217;s school experiences.  I did like the Gauss quote about it being better to have notions rather than notations.</p>
<p>I seem to recall Lancelot Hogben in &#8216;Mathematics for the million&#8217; providing some alternatives to the &#8216;formal logic proofs&#8217; &#8211; maybe we should ask Alan Bennett to write a mathematical version of &#8216;The history boys&#8217; based on some of Lockhart and Hogben&#8217;s material.  It&#8217;s more likely to rescue mathematics in schools then generations of politicians and &#8216;educators&#8217;. </p>
<p>Cheers, and thank you for this thought provoking item.</p>
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		<title>By: Fermats Brother</title>
		<link>http://chrislintott.net/2008/10/29/of-proof-and-other-things/comment-page-1/#comment-97104</link>
		<dc:creator>Fermats Brother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 20:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrislintott.net/?p=495#comment-97104</guid>
		<description>Hi Chris - Whilst I agree that a play about mathematicians should contain some maths to make it intellectually satisfying, you might like to consider it from the viewpoint of the producer. At Cambridge, I guess that you had, potentially, quite a select audience of pretty high intellect. 
On the basis that the average man-in-the-street (most likely including the critics) can&#039;t multiply two fractions together, to most people mathematical concepts  are yawn making ! (Even on the GZ forum !)
So I would guess there wouldn&#039;t be many bums-on-seats !

I thought the BBC production of &quot;Copenhagen&quot; was brilliant ! But I suspect that not many people grasped the concepts of Heisenberg/Bohr discussion and it&#039;s implications during the war (WW2).  

Fermats Brother</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chris &#8211; Whilst I agree that a play about mathematicians should contain some maths to make it intellectually satisfying, you might like to consider it from the viewpoint of the producer. At Cambridge, I guess that you had, potentially, quite a select audience of pretty high intellect.<br />
On the basis that the average man-in-the-street (most likely including the critics) can&#8217;t multiply two fractions together, to most people mathematical concepts  are yawn making ! (Even on the GZ forum !)<br />
So I would guess there wouldn&#8217;t be many bums-on-seats !</p>
<p>I thought the BBC production of &#8220;Copenhagen&#8221; was brilliant ! But I suspect that not many people grasped the concepts of Heisenberg/Bohr discussion and it&#8217;s implications during the war (WW2).  </p>
<p>Fermats Brother</p>
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		<title>By: Alice Sheppard</title>
		<link>http://chrislintott.net/2008/10/29/of-proof-and-other-things/comment-page-1/#comment-97100</link>
		<dc:creator>Alice Sheppard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:58:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrislintott.net/?p=495#comment-97100</guid>
		<description>I almost started looking online for the play, because I&#039;d be so interested to see that . . .

I loved the Paul Lockhart essay and started a thread about it in the Galaxy Zoo Forum. For me, it summed up entirely why I&#039;d never done well at maths or been interested. It also summed up what is wrong with education - that lessons start at the wrong end. Rather than being encouraged to deduce or invent anything for themselves (apart from the recent fad of letting 15-year-olds draw pictures or substitute play-dough for writing, the nonsense they call &quot;personalised learning&quot;), the children are expected to start by memorising and applying definitions. It&#039;s like starting with the final chapter of a book and memorising somebody else&#039;s summary of events or something, rather than reading it and thinking about it.

I never had the least idea what maths actually *is* until I&#039;d read that essay. Deep down, I knew it was the result of a series of inventions; but I&#039;d never questioned the assumption they&#039;d fed us that you have to get to post-PhD level to think anything out for yourself - and I couldn&#039;t do GCSE Maths because it was so tedious that I couldn&#039;t care less. As soon as I&#039;d seen a few shapes and questions by Paul Lockhart, I spent two weeks obsessively drawing circles and triangles, and speculating wildly about how much of a cube a three-dimensional pyramid takes up whilst refusing to Google the formula. 

A quantum physicst at Brighton University blames the culture of &quot;quick results&quot;, fuelled by television. Lessons must start with two &quot;learning objectives&quot; which all children must achieve by the end of the lesson. Whereas the deepest learning takes months or years to sink in. You can&#039;t test an honest intellectual relationship, it doesn&#039;t come with box-ticking, and therefore it fails inspections.

I hope that we are doing something like Paul Lockhart&#039;s teaching at the Galaxy Zoo Forum - sharing, speculating, inventing things (like Waveney&#039;s merger and irregular websites, and the peas projects), having the opportunity to be wrong, to find our own interests, and occasionally to set each other quizzes and problems.

I don&#039;t know enough about maths to say for sure that it is in that situation, though I believe it is. And I&#039;m terribly sad that I don&#039;t know, and I wish I could find out, but current textbooks only confuse me and I know I can&#039;t learn from them.

(Apologies for long post.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I almost started looking online for the play, because I&#8217;d be so interested to see that . . .</p>
<p>I loved the Paul Lockhart essay and started a thread about it in the Galaxy Zoo Forum. For me, it summed up entirely why I&#8217;d never done well at maths or been interested. It also summed up what is wrong with education &#8211; that lessons start at the wrong end. Rather than being encouraged to deduce or invent anything for themselves (apart from the recent fad of letting 15-year-olds draw pictures or substitute play-dough for writing, the nonsense they call &#8220;personalised learning&#8221;), the children are expected to start by memorising and applying definitions. It&#8217;s like starting with the final chapter of a book and memorising somebody else&#8217;s summary of events or something, rather than reading it and thinking about it.</p>
<p>I never had the least idea what maths actually *is* until I&#8217;d read that essay. Deep down, I knew it was the result of a series of inventions; but I&#8217;d never questioned the assumption they&#8217;d fed us that you have to get to post-PhD level to think anything out for yourself &#8211; and I couldn&#8217;t do GCSE Maths because it was so tedious that I couldn&#8217;t care less. As soon as I&#8217;d seen a few shapes and questions by Paul Lockhart, I spent two weeks obsessively drawing circles and triangles, and speculating wildly about how much of a cube a three-dimensional pyramid takes up whilst refusing to Google the formula. </p>
<p>A quantum physicst at Brighton University blames the culture of &#8220;quick results&#8221;, fuelled by television. Lessons must start with two &#8220;learning objectives&#8221; which all children must achieve by the end of the lesson. Whereas the deepest learning takes months or years to sink in. You can&#8217;t test an honest intellectual relationship, it doesn&#8217;t come with box-ticking, and therefore it fails inspections.</p>
<p>I hope that we are doing something like Paul Lockhart&#8217;s teaching at the Galaxy Zoo Forum &#8211; sharing, speculating, inventing things (like Waveney&#8217;s merger and irregular websites, and the peas projects), having the opportunity to be wrong, to find our own interests, and occasionally to set each other quizzes and problems.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know enough about maths to say for sure that it is in that situation, though I believe it is. And I&#8217;m terribly sad that I don&#8217;t know, and I wish I could find out, but current textbooks only confuse me and I know I can&#8217;t learn from them.</p>
<p>(Apologies for long post.)</p>
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